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parents interested in sharing applications knowledge
Hi,
The world of our son, Andrei (10, Netherlands) has opened up since he got his MyTobii P10, 3 month ago. He is physically very limited, but his eyes “work” very well. Andrei’s writing and reading are improving every day, he can choose and listen to his favorite music, he can operate the TV and DVD remote control, he has fun playing games alone or with friends, he can open his e-mail box and more.. He has always been a happy boy but now it is even much better. It's wonderful to see Andrei's life improving!
Although we are very enthusiastic about the My Tobii, of course there is something left to desire (not only because it is Saint Nicholas time :))
What Andrei misses is an interface of MyTobii (which functions like a mouse) with other applications like educative programs for school or games meant to improve knowledge and skills like reading, calculation, what ever... We tried on MyTobii a such a program called "By choice", but it didn’t work. We thought that if Internet works on MyTobii, each applications would work too, but so far we saw that is not possible. We are curious to know whether development of these applications can be expected in the near future. There are programs which are very user friendly and have big "buttons", we thought that they would be easy to be operated by eyes if My Tobii would allow that.
For your interest, Andrei uses Viking Software Communicator. It cost us a lot of time and energy to program applications, but it is worth. Of course our computer skills and programming time are limited. Therefore we are very interested too in sharing applications and knowledge with both MyTobii developers and users.
Best wishes,
Mihaela and Arie
-parents Andrei-
Mihaela, Arie and Andrei,
It's great to share your experiences. I'd love to hear more about your communication. How is Andrei using MyTobii - basic communication, text, symbols, games etc.?
Best,
Sara Hyléen
(Tobii)
Hello Mihaela, Arie, and Andre!
I am based in the US and have had a lot of families request that educational software be created that is eye control compatible. If you have the Windows Control option on your MyTobii, it is possible to use that as a single click or double click to access many software applications.
In addition, I had one parent report that they tried some other software that is not listed as a Tobii "partner application" but that it worked with eye control! I have not seen it myself yet, so cannot report myself that it works, however, my advice is to try a variety of software and see if any of it works. It is possible that some may work.
Finally, I would suggest contacting your favorite software companies and asking that they make their software eye control compatible. At Tobii, we believe in accessibility for all and are happy to help other companies make their software eye control compatible. However, we have to wait for those companies to express an interest in making their software eye control compatible first....we can't force them! :)
In the meantime, it is possible to create some basic educational-type activities with VS Communicator. There are letter matching and basic site-word matching games that come with the program, but it would also be possible to create beginning typing/writing boards with VS Communicator. You can also make talking books with VS Communicator (similiar to the way I made Talking Photo Albums in my previous blog).
Best wishes,
Erin
Hi Erin, We háven't seen your reaction when we posted ours. We are very happy with your reaction. Thank you very much. We will react more soon. Greetings, Mihaela, Arie and Andrei
Hi Erin, thanks for the suggestions. We have already sent an e-mail to the people from "By Choice" Software with the request to make their Sofware eye compatible. Hopely we'll get a positive response. :) Greetings, Mihaela, Arie and Andrei
Updated...
Thanks Sara for your reaction. Andrei uses since years a communication-system with eye fixation, a book with PCS symbols. It contains at the moment about 1500 symbols. This system is good but it asks always somebody's help to open the book, it takes much time and patience, it is limited and not easy to update (a child's vocabulary is developing continuously). MyTobii is easy, nice, spontaneous, fast, you hear a voice, it's joy! By the way, yesterday I heard Andrei for the first time telling me "Mama, ik hou van jou!" (Mam, I love you!)... Can you imagine how this feels?
With MyTobii Andrei can make whole sentences.. Sometimes he is a bit naughty. That is a big challenge too :).. Andrei needs no PCS symbols anymore because he can read (or recognise) words now, so he uses only text. His reading is improving fast, but we can not say the same about writing or calculation. We are looking for applications which could improve Andrei's writing and other skills. Please inform us if you know such of applications / games which are eye compatible.. Thank you!
About games.. Andrei plays / learns chess and "5 in a row" (MyTobii), and X & O and Memory (VS Communicator). It's great to see Andrei playing games with other children too.. but there is a problem with the MyTobii games... The computer does not respond always adequately... It happens often that Andrei clicks the right button, but the application refuses the command. That is a pity! We hope this problem will be solved soon. :) We want to mention that Andrei has not this problem in the other applications.
Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards,
Mihaela, Arie and Andrei
Dear Mihaela, Arie and Andrei,
It sounds like Andrei is doing really well with his P10 and it sounds like you're using VS Communicator to do many of the things he would like to do, really successfully.
It does seem like you will need to try the 'Windows Mouse Control' option in the MyTobii software if you would like to use ordinary software and games that were not made within an eye control-friendly program. If you have purchased your system with a licence for this feature, you will find it here: From the MyTobii desktop, click on the icon that says Windows Mouse Control. (If that icon is not there, it may be that you do not have this licence, in which case you should contact your supplier and buy it.) If the icon is there, it will take you to the usual Windows desktop, where you will have mouse control of all the applications there. Some work well with eye control, and others not, but many simple games, like those on the Cbeebies website http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/ do work well. (To access these mouse controls, Andrei will need to look 'off' the screen, to the left, where these functions are stored.)
However, it is VERY important to remember that for many people who use eye control, remaining inside software like VS Communicator or other eye-control enabled software, is actually very helpful. The 'buttons' that Andrei looks at help him by making his 'targets' easier to click. His buttons have been made just the right size for him, with symbols he knows etc and in ordinary software, the targets are obviously often much smaller. Also, in software like VS Communicator, Andrei only sees the 'feedback dot' in the centre of his button, and not the actual mouse pointer. Sometimes, the mouse pointer might be slightly off target (which is no problem inside an eye-control-friendly button) but we have found with some people and especially children, that being able to see the mouse pointer when it is not exactly on target, can be distracting. You will have to try it with Andrei and see what he prefers, and what he can manage best.
Good luck with it all!
Best wishes,
Lisa Oosthuizen
Hallo Lisa,
Thank you for your useful reaction. In the meantime Andrei got MyTobii 2.4 version. We tried ByChoice (educative application) again and IT WORKS now!!! we also tried other educative softwares in Windows and most of them worked too. That is fantastic for Andrei! Though Windows Mouse Control is much more difficult than VS Communicator, Andrei have a good eye control and most of the time it's going well... We are all happy and grateful for each progress that Andrei makes with MyTobii... and they are not small at all! :)
All the best everyone!
Greetings,
Mihaela, Arie and Andrei
hiya,
I have been using my p10 for some 17 months now so I have quite a bit of experience in it but I still say mouse control is an issue. though v2.4 made a big difference. its magnifier tool is probably the best of all the new features. would be nice if companies realized that there are people out here who can`t rely on mouse control as well as others and fit keyboard shortcuts into their applications at least. I have a good eye control over the whole screen of my tobii and have to admit that sometimes still struggle with the mouse control. especially when I have to swap between click types.
Chris
pro tobii user
Hi Chris,
Thank you for your reactions, very appreciated. Our son struggles with mouse control sometimes too... But the software's he uses at the moment have big buttons and that makes a bit easier... He has now more and more choice in good exercises for writing, reading, etc... he's writing and reading are improving faster now...
Andrei likes very much drawing and puzzle too. Does anyone know draw and puzzle applications compatible with MyTobii?
Thank you!
Mihaela - Andrei's mother
Hiya,
I haven`t tried these yet but follow this link and you will probably find things you are after.
http://www.cogain.org/downloads/leisure-applications
Chris
pro tobii user
Hi Chris,
Thank you for the link.
Mihaela - Andrei's mother
Not to mention! :)
There is something wrong with the puzzle game as it crashes every time.
Chris
pro tobii user
Hi Chris,
We haven't tried the puzzle application yet.
Very appreciated your reaction about the puzzle.
Have you tried the drawing application, too?
Mihaela
No probelm we are here to help eachother.
Yes I have tried the drawing application called Eye Art. It is too early to make a verdict on it; all I can tell you is that I am interested in it and find it fun. Also have to mention that I don`t really know how to use the programme yet but it has a good, detailed help file.
I think this application is only for those who can control the whole screen or at the very least have control over the major areas of the screen. Also as the Eye art is a 3rd party application I think it is best to set the calibration area in the tobii software up to the size of the whole screen.
It can be confusing if the mouse control menu comes up while trying to access the tools menu on the left at the beginning.
What other applications do you use on your P10?
Chris
pro tobii user
Hoi Chris,
Andrei tried Eye Art from Cogain, but it is too difucult for him to control.
Andrei uses V.S. Communicator. What applications do you use?
Best wishes,
Mihaela (Andrei's mother)
Hi,
I find Eye art difficult to control as well.
I use the Grid 2, don`t know VS Communicator at all just heared about it.
Chris
pro tobii user
Lisa Oosthuizen
lisa.oosthuizen@tobii.com
Hi there,
I know that many people would really love a good eye-enabled art program and it sounds like we're still looking! I know of one that is simple, yet fun - although the big disadvantage is that it is not MyTobii-enabled (i.e. you need to use mouse pointer control, rather than the direct access dot feature). These programs do change the resolution of your screen, and naturally, I can't guarantee that they work for you, but it might be worth trying. It is free, and is called Tux Paint: http://www.tuxpaint.org/
I'd love to hear your feedback when you've tried it.
Regards,
Lisa Oosthuizen
lisa.oosthuizen@tobii.com
Anyone tried speaking with Broderbund software? I think they are the ones who made that Kid Pix thing which was so simple that back in 4th grade school used to use it with nothing but switches, and if you can control it with nothing but 4 head switches then maybe it would work pretty good with mouse control... now I know you all want direct access dot enabled applications but sadly software companies as a stereotype tend to be stingy and want money to do ANYTHING which kind of sucks since Tobii could really help these companies in the sector of publicity...
What kind of software is this Broderbund software? Probably, companies would need new staff and new prospective on how to make their software eye control enabled. Plus, many of these countries just simply don`t realise the importance of eye gaze technology.
Chris
pro tobii user
Broderbund software is a large multi-national software company from when i used to know about it. I dont know if the company died by now. if they are still alive then id probably check into them...
and yes a lot of people do not know how important eye control systems are... they are the future of computing for EVERYONE not just people with disabilities, they are just in the niche market.. for now, but i know eye control will take the world by storm...
Okay, good luck on the Broderbund company check ;) I will try to find information about them myself as well.
I think companies might be a little bit affraid of new technologies sometimes and this applies to eye gaze technology, too. I have been talking to quite a few people and they all said, that eye gaze technology is the future for everyone.
Chris
pro tobii user
I am sick of companies being "Afraid" of new technologies, HEY MICROSOFT, TOBII IS NOT VAPORWARE (software / hardware that suddenly goes poof off the market) TOBII IS GOING TO PROBABLY BE HERE FOREVER, SO GET THAT PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT OUT AND START SIGNING PAPERS!!! OR ELSE ME AND A FRIEND OF MINE WILL COME RUN YOU OVER WITH OUR POWERCHAIRS!!! YES YOU MR. BILL GATES!!!!
Okay-okay :) just had a look at the title of this topic and realized that we are in the furthest possible distance from it. So just quickly: would be great to speed up the spread of the eye gaze friendly applications for sure.
For the time being, making eye control more sophisticated and intelligent is the most important issue on the to-do list. Best possible way of use of the screen is essential as we only have one screen to physically fit everything (keyboard, mouse, 3rd party software(s) and the corresponding add-ons, etc.) onto; our possiblities are ... hm, wouldn`t say are limited just simply different while still want to have the same effects caused by our eyes interaction. Also, because of the human nature, we tend to use our eyes for observing our surroundings. Using eye gaze technology this can be a problem; I myself find it annoying enough sometimes to pause the trackers when I only want to stare into space or look at a certain point on the screen without any interaction. Also, to swap between different mouse control functions can be difficult sometimes for different reasons which are originated in the nature of the software being used. The tobii eye tracker`s off-screen button is great but proves to be complicated to use on the odd occasions. e.g.: you need right click from the start menu. The other way is the replace mouse control with a 3rd party application, like the Grid 2. But this means that cells have to be used which take up space on the screen and all windows should be docked to the grid set.
I read the other day on a forum page somewhere else in one of the comments to a post, that eye gaze control is really the future for everyone not only for disabled people. I think I don`t have to talk about the technology`s marketing use. Besides, in the same comment, I read that eye gaze control will be essentially useful as an extra peripherial input device accompanied by the mouse and the keyboard. Now, this is wonderful. But... doesn`t really mean a lot of good to us who only use our eyes as the sole input source.
Chris
pro tobii user
I think as eye control advances into the mainstream market they will make it even better, i just know that in the future it will replace all input devices... unless the mindreader device comes into play ;)
Let`s play sci-fi than :D
With a fast advancing technology like eye gaze control it is difficult to predict where and how quickly it will advance to. It would be good to hear something from tobii what they think about the possible use of this technology in the future; what kind of prospective they have. Also, what they think is managable with eye control. I just hope the answer will be everything ;) as this would be the best possible answer for me.
Chris
pro tobii user
eye controlled computers, eye controlled powerchairs, eye controlled T.Vs, eye controlled printers, eye controlled doors, eye controlled toasters, eye controlled microwaves, eye controlled washing machines, eye controlled dryers... EYE CONTROLLED EVERYTHING!!!
Great vision, great vision!
I think the technology is already there because with the tobii all these devices can be controlled using infrared. Sometimes teaching the infrared device to mirror the remote can be tricky.
Or are you thinking of direct eye control on these devices you said?
Chris
pro tobii user
My idea would be direct eye control, no intervention from tobii needed, look at the refrigerator and blink it will open look at the freezer and blink and it will open, blink twice while its open and it closes
TV would be an interesting one...
but yes im thinking direct eye control.
I see. I have tried blink interaction with my tobii P10 and I found it extremely difficult compared to dwell time interaction. Just imagine how this would work with other devices. Appropriate distance from them, what if more than one person is staring at them, how would the intentional staring by differentiated from just looking, etc... And the TV. Well, we all watch the TV. I don`t think I have to say what I want to say now, do I?
Chris
pro tobii user
Yeah, blinking is not exactly the easiest for me to do repeatedly either, The TV thing would definitely not work, a lot of things would not work correctly... we need a good system to differentiate just looking at it, and looking to trigger it...
Off topic subject again :(
But still. A rather complicated problem for the programmers.
Chris
pro tobii user
I just have to say that reading this string has been one of the most interesting and entertaining things I have done all day. Just to piggyback onto things that could work on eye control...I love your ideas, and I think the secret is always to go where the money is. Two places that I think would put the most money into eye controlled devices are:
1. Video games
2. Military
And by the way, I was laughing out loud when you were talking about running Bill Gates over with the power chairs...oh my goodness. You are too funny.
Hey JessB, glad to see you here, looks like you havent been here in a long time... so WELCOME BACK *pulls out party hats and cake and everything* I am rather new here but have become a very good member.. i love posting here and i am glad you enjoy reading my post.... i love to make jokes... why do they call MyTobii MyTobii, shouldnt it be YourTobii if i am talking about YourTobii... bah whatever...
Video games would be an awesome subject for eye control... it would make the ultimate lazy gamers want a tobii system!
military isn't a good money maker.... likely to go vaporware since the military is not always at war...
Hey guys,
good to see some buzz here at last :)
The technology tobii uses is definitely the technology for the future. Probably computer games are a very good source of money for this kind of technology. We should not forget about marketing areas and general security. Might sound a bit too futuristic but people say the eyes are the mirrors of the soul. Just imagine using this technology for finding out when people are telling the truth, to identify people, etc.
But again, we are off topicing here :)
Yeah Jess, Alin is a kind of guy who loves to make jokes; also helps a lot with his ideas.
Chris
pro tobii user
*sniff sniff* hmm chris, is that an eye controlled lie detector i smell coming down the pipeline...
might be. I just visionised a possibility here.
Chris
pro tobii user
You know, an eye controlled lie detector would be much harder to fool than the current lie detectors used in law enforcement... which would probably reduce the amount of false negatives on lie tests...
i think it would be a great idea..
It looks like I didn`t say something silly ;)
Chris
pro tobii user
You know, companies don't have to sign partnership agreements or anything in order to "Tobiiize" their software. There is a developers kit available in return for contact information ( so we know who's thinking about Tobiiizing their software). The dveloment effort takes a day or two. Done.
... so please encourage your favorite software providers to Tobiize their software!
Jane
i was just thinking about it ;)
Chris
pro tobii user
Just emailed a few companies with the idea of tobiizing their software.
Having said that, wouldn`t it be a good idea if tobii included skype support (with skype in and out contacts plus dialing) in the IM part of the software?
Chris
pro tobii user
Skype might not survive for long, sorrowfully. There are some new mobile based applications that might make it hard for Skype to stay in business.
For educational software applications, make sure you order your device with Boardmaker with Speaking Dynamically Pro. It is an excellent communication and education package. There are many educational add-ons as well as thousands of boards from other users you can download at AdaptedLearning.com.
You also will get the PCS Symbols with Boardmaker - which is much more comprehensive than the very limited content Symbol Stix.
Judy